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Starchild and Neanderthal Psychology

February 3, 2013

Posted by Koanic under face reading

37 Comments

** Newt Gingrich

Newt Gingrich is primarily Starchild. He may have some Melon or Cro Magnon lean. Look at the way the sides of his head bulge out. When I was a kid I assumed this was his hair, but it’s his skull:

He’s a bit slimy, with little or no public charisma, but wielded significant power as an insider. This fits the Starchild pattern. They’re like a Melonized version of Neanderthals – small-group manipulators.

** The dissociative window

On the other hand, perhaps creating a ranking of inherent evil for the three intelligent races is inappropriate. Thals are dissociative and absolutely ruthless to outsiders, whereas Starchildren and Melons do not dissociate as much, and thus have checks against such behavior.

A Thal is designed for a close-bonded insular group, so he does not need empathic projection as a social glue. He treats his tribemates well because they are all lifelong friends and family, and that is his deepest value. By contrast, Melons and Starchildren need empathic projection to prevent psychopathic predation on the extended ingroup. When a certain line is crossed, they experience discomfort and emotional pain, even on behalf of strangers. By contrast, Thals have massive emotional dissociation. Unless the victim is within the ingroup, they do not feel much of anything.

This is a bit difficult to understand, but it’s essentially the same thing as the emotional constipation and deadening of Aspergers’. The difference between Thals and psychopaths is that Thals form genuine, deep and sacrificial close bondings.

To distinguish this phenomenon from psychopathy, I’ve coined the term “dissociative window”. The edge of your window is your “line”, where you begin to feel discomfort, disturbance, and empathy.

Some Thals go to the other extreme, and display a near-universal empathy. This is because they are defining everyone as within their ingroup.

The dissociative window is also connected to the strictness of cultural norms. Cro Magnons have a very tight dissociative window, and are hence always getting offended when the tribal norms are violated. The resulting punitive behavior can seem bewildering in its cruelty, but that is because those with larger dissociative windows cannot take seriously what they view as non-existent offenses.

Thal conversational patter is mostly happy and saccharine, but they will drop horrific shit at random that shocks the hell out of everyone, then resume the happy chat as if nothing happened. Everything screams to a halt, but the Thal, programmed for near unlimited social liberty and trust, can’t understand what he’s done wrong. To the others, it seems that he’s let slip a psychopathy tell, or else major social miscalibration, or is intentionally being shocking to grab attention. But the psychopathic evolutionary strategy cannot exist in the Neanderthal environment, where everything is long term, so Neanderthals don’t even know it exists.

Here’s a perfect example of what I mean. The Joe Rogan podcast is co-hosted by Brian Redban. Redban is a TT and Rogan is an MM. Brian, in Rogan’s words, “says a lot of ridiculous shit.” A TT watching this may not even understand what Redban is doing wrong, and interpret the mockery as dickishness. They literally have no idea where the line is.

A pic from My Nationalist Pony is another example. Buttercup, the TT author, doesn’t understand how it is disturbing.

He also sent me this gif of a girl (a kid) getting KO’ed and possibly killed by a bowling ball, as something insignificant and amusing. I was pained and disturbed, which is a hard reaction to provoke from me. But it was also incredibly ludicrous that the cheery proprietor of MLP would casually drop something so horrific, with no idea what he’d done.

For reference, here’s my line. I can just barely tolerate the vid below, because it’s real and it’s what Buakaw grew up in. I’d willingly watch it once, but not twice.

Some big-eye melons and MT’s enjoy wolfish flirting with the edge of the dissociative window, a stimulating game that builds solidarity and affirms the shared line. TT’s find this dark, disturbing and pointless, since they completely lack the line. To them, it simply seems mean-spirited.

** Starchild psychology

Starchildren have very good, emotionally infused long term memory, which they heavily process and interpret. They operate on a long-term relationship basis. Meaning is primary, mediated through relationships. Letting people go is difficult.

However, they are not ingenopathic – compelled to 100% honesty to self-detriment – as Thals are. They are like the introvert version of Melonheads.

Starchildren do not have a conquest and colonization drive like Melons. However, Melons do seem to have an instinctive repulsion to Starchildren. I suspect this is because Starchildren act as natural predators to Melons.

Melons are hierarchical socializers. Starchildren are empathic socializers. Melons dominate; Starchildren influence. Put a Starchild and a Melon together in the same social group, and the Starchild will undermine the Melon by turning the social circle against him, making him look like a dick.

Thals also have a fundamentally different principle of social organization than Melons, but Thals do not actively enforce it. Therefore they represent a minor or non-existent threat when they are a minority. But Starchildren actively impose their egalitarian social order, in direct opposition to Melon hierarchical order. The Starchild reaction to Melons is chiding and indirect subversion through relationship building and value-weaving. (By this I mean persuasive appeals to what is right and good, etc.)

Starchildren have the emotional perception to see Melon dickishness, the Thal insoicance to flout Melon norms, the Melon aggression to not back down, the close circle relationships to win the confrontation, and the social facility to make him look like a dick afterwards

So I think to put it most succinctly, Starchildren are empathic dominators, and Melons are hierarchical dominators.

Glenn

RE- the bowling picture: If you put one hand under a cold faucet and the other hand under a warm one, brain scans will show your brain experiencing rapidly shifting perceptions of cold and hot. Seeing the bowling alley GIF, I’m experiencing about 80% shock and grief about the pain, and about 20% amusement. The first time, my jaw had dropped, but I heaved two or three times in laughter. I suspect that if I saw it four years ago, I would have laughed hysterically. I’ve become less emotionally distanced in that time, a product of the environment.

Koanic

response would be more useful if you listed your type. I don’t think I laughed at all, can’t remember

Glenn

You identified me as MT.

Koanic

yeah, makes sense, our reactions are pretty similar. I also wonder if feminization/masculinization modifies how/what crosses the dissociative line.

Pat

starchild, reporting in. i can remember a few fights/confrontational (i never personally initiated the violence) situations a got into that came about due to the fact i felt that someone was attempting to exercise some form of control over me sheerly for the sake of establishing dominance through some sort of authority. every time i remember this happening, i remember getting extremely pissed off and having absolutely none of it, though I know enough not to let these feelings of indignity surface high enough to detriment me. micromanaging female bosses and teachers are particularly bad with this; i have had a few male ones do something similar, but it certainly isn’t as common with them. i have never liked the idea of hierarchal social structures, even less so the more dominance is implied. the idea of royalty, for example, seems inherently unjust to me.
Nightwatchstate

FATALITY!!
Hmm

So an MT would probably be the Starchild’s most dangerous opponent, since they have melon drive with thal insouciance.

Yeah

Fighting melons was irritating because it was like trying to nail jello to the wall due to their manipulative social ability. Starchildren were irritating because they tried to manipulate me directly, similar to the cracks in a TM.

Koanic

@Hmm:

Maybe. I think MT’s would have difficulty with Starchild social facility. But on rhetoric perhaps yes.

@Yeah

Sounds right.

grant

Are TMs similar in that regard to stars? because as a TM, I can really relate the emotional memory concept, turning groups against dominating melons, empathetic domination. Though I don’t always have the persistence to pursue a point against them if I feel they’re not going to “get it.”

The melony-ness compliments the thal very well when trying to make a point, because I strive to be both as truthful/accurate as possible, while still knowing the ins/outs of persuasion. For this reason, it’s easy for me to appear highly confident online.

about what percent of the population would you expect to be starchild? and melon + thal, for that matter

Yeah

“Though I don’t always have the persistence to pursue a point against them if I feel they’re not going to “get it.” That’s because your thal back is burning out too quickly. Starchildren are definitely very similar to TM, but not the same. TM seem to be more dangerous in group settings and SC seems more dangerous when one-on-one. They can steal your soul. That cult effect Koanic was talking about seems real in both TM and SC. “I strive to be both as truthful/accurate as possible, while still knowing the ins/outs of persuasion.” That is always what irritated me about TM. I can see through the persuasion attempts spinning the thal back. Those are the “cracks.” Starchildren are far worse in regards to that though.

Grant

My intentions are always kinda all over the place for that reason. Thal wants to have close personal bonds, melon wants to dominate. Reconciling the two is near impossible. Though I almost always have good intentions, the melon wants to manipulate for the sake of them. Always feigning innocence, pretending to not be a perfectionist, and it’ll feel like I’m faking emotions for social gain even when I do genuinely feel the “faked” emotions.

No one can ever call me on it though. And if they did, I’d make them look like a dick.
Koanic

sounds like you know your stuff, Yeah, elaboration on the starchild would be great

Yeah

“Starchild is very rare, I would say almost all high IQ is melon or thal or both.” That’s very interesting to me, because I ended up dating two Starchildren in a row. It was not planned (was it?). What they were gravitating to? Both were highly intelligent with IQs above 140, so you are right on that account. Both lacked melon charisma with big groups, definitely. There were not antisocial like thals are, but more like asocial, liking small groups only, they could “turn it on” when they wanted to. “However, they are not ingenopathic – compelled to 100% honesty to self-detriment – as Thals are. They are like the introvert version of Melonheads.” Sounds exactly right.
Yeah

Also both had religious nuts running in the family. There’s the cult effect again. One had the same skull as Newt. Melon and Starchild eyes do not look the same to me. They seem in between thal and melon eyes. Look at the second photo.

Koanic

interesting, thanks

Koanic

Starchild and TM have quite similar presentation, however the internal mental patterns and spiritual motivations are different.

Starchild is very rare, I would say almost all high IQ is melon or thal or both.

Daniel

I’m missing something entirely. How is the kickboxing match between the boys (is that what you meant to embed?) almost intolerable? In what way? I was pretty excited for the winner, and the loser was so game. A lot of adults don’t even fight that way – just open, free yet in control. Is it because there is a big crowd for it? The bowling thing, also, is just very very funny. Is it because you are worried the person might be dead? (I don’t think they are, even if the stunt is a real accident, because if it was and it was my relative, I’d make sure footage was never released or taken.)

I’m deeply confused by the emotional map you are drawing, because I thought I was probably an MT since I tend to blather on. The loser of the fight had such good control of his fear, it was more impressive than the winners considerably skill advantage.

EdensThaw

Sounds like you’re a melon.

Daniel

Maybe so. I understand the face thing, but Koanic’s “windowsill” line of what is acceptable is really hard for me to follow. Concept makes sense, but application to real things? I’m always completely off. For what it is worth – koanic’s initial assessment was likely MT or TT, but I have a problem in that I never show up in photographs. Perhaps I am vampire melon.

Daniel

Oh yeah, and the pony is just a cute and friendly animal sort of enjoying a nuclear explosion. There is nothing inherently “disturbing” about that. Fire is cool. Animals are great. It is just a fun picture that contrasts elements.

Koanic

Daniel, I went back through a lot of your comments and I still have no idea what type you are. You appear to be levelheaded and emotionally stable. Odd because I usually have at least a guess from writeprint.

Daniel

You know what, I misunderstood your original assessment. From pictures, you assessed T-M/T (or possibly TT), and somehow I just read it as straight up MT. I haven’t thought about it again, since I’m more interested in reading other people, and figured T-M/T was close to MT. Would my inability to find the above images as anything but (respectively from top to bottom: cute/funny/hopeful, straight up hilarious, and inspiring) fit the T-M/T thing? I’ll be kind of sad to discover I lack significant melonosity, but it will explain my inability to cast fireball.

Koanic

oh right I remember kinda now. Yeah that’s what it meant. The reading rules out Aurini (another T-M / T) and puts you at either TT or hybrid back. Hmm maybe the melon is muted and the Thal dominant, which is why I can’t quite get a read on it.

Daniel

Sometimes I forget how downright incredible your model really is. It is so natural and (from an observational point of view, my own confounded self-assessment notwithstanding) obvious, that I forget that it is a long-held mysterion revealed now by God (unless it is wrong. In which case, one of the coolest Satanic delusions, ever!)Maybe I’m well-adjusted because I’m so happy in the ghost world and I can see Jesus coming to restore all things, so loving my enemies is real actual love – a happy thing.Either that or nuclear explosion ponies are the source of all joy.

Koanic

I say rules out Aurini cuz your melon has to be less than his, or else it would’ve not been ambiguous

Daniel

One more thing: can anyone talk about this “line” a little more? I can conceptualize that social groups decide to divide things into containers of “funny” and “not funny” and “painful” and “not painful” because it creates a sort of currency. Also, there’s some sort of sensation that one gets when going from the “funny” box to the “not funny” box. But how does that sensation differ from laughter (Or in the case of pain boxes, from the constant high you get from pain). Why do you divide them up, I guess is what I’m asking, and how do you all agree on where to draw that line? To be clear: I’m not talking about being polite in public – I’ve always known that there’s a mix of people in the world, and there’s always at least one person (usually a dozen) in any public group that is little more than a very fearful, wrathful, broken child chimpanzee, and you need to be quiet and even as possible with them and handfeed them food and medicine, knowing they’ll never be tame. I’m talking about the smaller groups of people in their natural state. A lot of them share this artificial line. (like Koanic and Glenn). What motivates you to agree on it, draw it and keep it?Fascinating stuff.

Koanic

Thanks kindly Daniel. Typing yourself by psychological print is always a difficult and special case. I didn’t do it right either.

We’re not motivated to draw the line; it’s innate. Something stops being funny when it is genuinely painful and distressing. Think of it as prosthetic trust. Since our tribe is too large for 1 on 1 intimacy with every member, we need something additional to promote in-group homogeneity and altruism.

Minor flouting of the prosthetic can confirm that our bond is strong enough to discard the prosthetic, hence dark humor. But major breaches communicate psychopathy.

Thals do not need the prosthetic, either empathic or social norms, because of small tribe size.

Daniel

Hmm. This a very hard concept for me, so forgive me for my dimness. It is a struggle. I can see it, and you describe it well, but I don’t understand how it is innate. Doesn’t the prosthetic trust, as you describe it, also isolate good things like pain and laughter? Do you have to consciously run over to the laughter pool when you are starved of laughter? Do you have to schedule time in the pain pool to get your fix? Since we run on waves of pain and laughter, I’d become very nervous if I didn’t have the euphoria of constant pain, if I tried to compartmentalize it. Same with laughter, and there’s not much in this world that I can’t and don’t laugh with. Again, I understand the politeness factor – some broken folks need animal handling more than they want pain and laughter. How do you relate to Jesus if you aren’t just laughing and in pain in a natural, flowing way? Once I chopped my finger off on accident and it was such a great flight. I couldn’t stop laughing (until I passed out from shock). If I had use of that dividing prosthetic trust, I wouldn’t have laughed at all, and maybe, if it wasn’t appropriate, I wouldn’t have even gotten the rush of pain. How do you keep from feeling like a robot? Maybe a better question is this: does this prosthetic trust define a real thing? Do some people pass through it without noticing it – not because the trust/wall/line isn’t real, but because it is very real, and the people are ghosts?

Koanic

I think you are probably seeing it incorrectly, instead of not seeing it.
We find fewer jokes funny, yes, and have a more circumscribed range of social behavior, for ourselves and others.

If we want to laugh, we make a joke. As for that whole pain thing, I think you are talking TT there. Getting you a little bit, but not really.

It’s not compartmentalization. I’m sure there would be jokes you would find unfunny and mean. Like, “Hey, she is a stupid ugly fat pimple-faced loser,” or something. It’s a similar feeling. Just happens at a different point.
The prosthetic is not an actual thing, it just is an abstract concept to explain why the point for emotional unacceptability is different in hominids with different group sizes.

Daniel

Yes, absolutely – there are attempts at jokes that aren’t funny. There is pain that isn’t good. That makes sense. Still it would be good to be able to learn why My Little Pony nuke and bowling ball slapstick and child fight are unsettling to people. I think I have a decent grasp on (in general, but I blow past it often enough) what sort of things bother some people, but I don’t grasp why, for example, pony-nuke is “out of bounds” or unfathomable for some, or why starchild skull is so off-putting for others. Why does pony-nuke tromp with spiked feet upon your viscera while trotting along quite happily on mine? I’m slowly seeing the situation better.

Koanic

There’s no real why; it’s just the fact that it does that’s important. I’m sure there (might, maybe) be some visual juxtaposition that would disturb you; for others the line is just tighter.

Koanic

That’s why Thal major breaches are either taken as incredibly hilarious and awesome – because they are massively bold bond confirmations – or else pained chastisement and disbelief, because they go too far.

Adam

1.The bowling gif is funny, I only felt about 10-15% discomfort after you described your feelings.
2. My facial structure is very similar to the autistic kids you’ve showed(I compared them with my photo when I was 10 yrs old)
3. My os frontale looks like a hill compared to my os parietale(when my hair is really short)
4. According to the SAT to IQ conversion chart my IQ is 133 ( Although I didn’t study much for the test I still think my IQ is between 120-140, I am not a genius.)
What is my type?

Koanic

Sounds like you have a lot of Thal, I’d have to see a side pic to know for sure. I would guess mostly TT, but info is too limited to have much certainty.

Adam

My eye sockets are deep(according to the photos you posted). My back head is somehow like Matt Hughes but probably a little bigger.
6-11: Always top 3 in the class(without an effort). I spent most of my time reading about history and geography. I was obsessed with Rome(still am).
12-15: My mom died, I became depressed and idle. I only ate and watched movies. I became huge and socially I was bouncing from being popular to weird. I became a devout Muslim.
16: I quit Islam(while getting my Islamic knowledge), became agnostic and started searching for purpose.
17: I started my life again I’ve lost most of my weight (lost 60 kg, I am 173cm)
18: There was a lot of idleness here because of philosophy, so I gained some weight and my health became really bad
19: I started living life for life and everything so far is good.

I would like you to know that I’m not asking for a non-photo pass to the Neander-hall. I just like to communicate with people I admire. When the time is right, I will send you a photo.
.

Koanic

interesting, sounds MT. welcome anytime

Koanic Soul

Starchild and Neanderthal Psychology

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